Ruminations on Scale

[masmojo]

[masmojo]

All valid points!

Yes, 1/32 cars are easier to tune than 1/43, but not so much easier as forgiving. I can get a 1/43 car to drift nicely, but most of this is related to the type of guide and tires. Both things that are sort of taken for granted in 1/32!
Yes, 1/43 is considered a "toy" grade and I am OK with that as long as we are not limited to just toy grade!

I can't blame you for wanting to go 1/32, BUT you are doing exactly what they want you to do! By not having a high quality alternative in 1/43, they force you to buy into their 1/32 offerings.

It's OK to me it's a little bit like gas that costs $3.50+ a gallon, ultimately it drives alternatives; hybrids, electronic cars and better batteries. In this way the oil companies are kind of slitting their own throats!

Same here, By not having good quality options, the guys here are leading the way with Printed chassis, guides and accessories! So much so that before too long we won't need the manufacturers at all and that is why I mention this idea of a hybrid scale! Better to change from the outset maybe then get down the road a bit and say "huh we, should have/ could have changed this or that"

Although, with Digital files maybe the difference is more symbolic and "kind of LOOK in your face!"ish then anything!

Another benefit of a 1/38 or 1/40 scale car is (in my opinion) they look better on Scalextric track then most 1/32 cars do!! ;-)

[ElSecundo]

Mas, I also really enjoy 1:43, but there are only so many scale enthusiasts out there. What we want to see in 1:43 is what is already being done in 1:32. Doing it effectively in 1:43 would be a parasitic drag on 1:32, and that doesn't help the manufacturers. In other words, there is no financial incentive to take 1:43 to the next level.

That said, I've been wondering if 1:43 can differentiate itself by using a uniform chassis the way the HO makers do. It would be interesting to see them scale up the pancake chassis, and adapt it for braids instead of pickup shoes. Reducing costs by making them uniform would give them a little room to play in the scale department.

[Arkay]

Have a look at what is being shown in the different slotcar forums in the 43rd scale threads.
Could you honestly say you see a development in techniques or modeling and scale ? Todays level there is still the same as three years ago. So why should producers, IF they follow such forums, change THEIR mind ? For a handful of hardcore modelers in 43 rd scale ?
Why should Carrera give up producing loopings and bankings and instead giving all of their cars correctly sized wheels and clearance ? The average appearance of their cars is nice and good looking, and obviously this is is enough.
SCX tried it in a way that was promisng but gave up. Why ? Probably not enough sales. Dslot ? Too complicated and thus discouraging for the vast majority of "xmas buyers" who are the majority of customers.

The only progress to be seen in forums are the printed slotcar parts. But they are far away from a satisfying quality yet - unless one loves rough surfaces.
43rd scale slotcar racing obviously is a field for experiments between toys and semi toys. Real scale, as to be standard in 32nd scale seems to be of no interest. Look at the rules for proxies.
The few who build REALLY scale, detailed models are more than hard to be found.
Everything shown in threads - no matter if it is a crocodile on an Artin chassis or a Carrera GO! Mario Bros. comic car is praised and found excellent, super and whatsoever.
So tell me how 43rd scale slotracing should develop with this basis.
Yet another scale is unneccessary. I have just calculated and compared main dimensions of 1:1 with 1/43 and 1/38. The differences are too small to change anything.
BUT : If it is too difficult to tune a 43rd scale car or to build your own chassis in this scale, you will have similar difficulties in 32nd scale as well.

IMHO 43 rd scale is the ideal scale for Slotcar modeling similar to model railroading. Done at home, enough space, big enough yet to build detailed cars as well as landscape, people and whatsoever and to see what one has built. But I doubt whether it will ever gain a level like today's 32nd scale homeracing. We are such a tiny community, and how many of us are really interested in a development ? And if, where should it go ?

Roland

[OL Mike]

its tuff sometimes to think of box.But in do time 143 will make it

[masmojo]

Well, yes, it's true why change for a handful of enthusiasts? But, this is the same old argument (even for 1/32) that it's just a toy, yadda, yadda, yadda It will only be a handful of Enthusiasts as long as it's only allowed to be a handful of Enthusiasts.

Small difference between 1/43 and 1/38, Yes, BUT just enough to alleviate most of the problems with designing and building a small slot car. People say, 1/43 is too small, Yes! I agree, but not by a whole lot. The difference in the E-type example above is almost 1/2" of length! Realistically, only about 12% bigger, but enough to solve some of those nagging 1/43 problems, like the conflict between the size of the motor and the size of the wheels, while at the same time getting the whole thing low to the track or wheels that are so small it's hard to fit a proper insert in them! And lets face it the majority of the reason so many 1/43 cars come with pin guides is because it's just easier on a small car!

At the same time we are saying that a 1/43 car is too small, there are legions of Guys who still run HO! SO . . . . . ?

Digital printing Rough? Again a myth, may have been true two years ago and there are different levels of resolution, but how smooth does a chassis need to be? Right Not very! and I have a 1/43 printed Aston body sitting right here on my desk that has a satiny smooth finish, perfect for painting.

I am talking about having your cake and eating it too, that was the appeal of 1/43, but unfortunately if no manufacturers are going to step up to the plate 1/43 is forever stuck in a holding pattern, a slowly degrading death spiral.

So, what then? If I just go to 1/32 then I am stuck with building a layout that can never be as grand as I want! Yeah the cars run great, but . . . .

With all these, issues swirling around I keep coming back to the same answer! The evolution of digital printing will allow people to decide for themselves, what size/scale they want to work in; I am merely advocating Something between 1/43 and 1/32! That makes sense to me!

Anywayz, I am gonna experiment; when I have something, I will post my results for examination and comment!

[mgs75thmeu]

[OL Mike]

:twocents-mytwocents:

[Ember]

1/38 scale may eliminate some of the problems with regard to being able to fit stuff into a smaller scale car, but it doesn't address the main one which nothing can do. It takes the same amount of time and almost the same amount of material outlay to produce a model in the smaller scale. Until the turnover is the same these costs must be defrayed over smaller numbers. That lack of turnover means they must be dearer.

The problem exists for any attempt to breakthrough a new scale (even a low volume existing one). The circle is a viscous one, but it is one that will exist until the critical mass point is reached. Until that critical mass, it is unlikely that a mass producer will jump on the bandwagon unless they already have a position in the same scale in another market and can re-use and repurpose what they already manufacture.

It's a difficult problem you face no matter which way you turn. Is there anyway of using an existing product (SCX 43?) as a base? It would take a whole lot of investment and an awful lot of faith on the part of a group of individuals and still no guarantee.

[Dodgefarmer]

Perhaps this may be a case of old becoming new. Where the old Eldon cars that we grew up with were certainly a lot smaller than 1/32. When we were kids they looked and ran just fine. Yet they pale by today's standards, which in all actuality have only been a fairly recent development. Maybe we should be looking at something along those lines, with the caveat being the extra real estate needed for a larger scale track. However I feel that if 1/43 cars were produced identical to Carrera's 1/32 cars and at the same price point that we would be living in a practically perfect world, slot car wise.

Just my :twocents-mytwocents: worth
Randy

[Arkay]

[masmojo]

[OL Mike]

I M ALWAYS LOOKING ``143 FASTLANE Made this This is 1/43 its RC 9 big ones :twocents-mytwocents:

[masmojo]

Actually Dave the difference in what you can do with a 1/43 scale track and 1/32 is Massive! You can't really scale it off a real mile though, it just does not work! And if you are routing the difference can be even more!

My old 3 lane 4' X 8' 1/43 scale routed track was more or less equal to my previous 1/32 Scalextric track that was 5 1/2' x 11' and only 2 lanes! One lane gained in 75% of the space AND I still had a fair amount of room for scenic stuff where-as my 1/32 scale track only had scenery on the edges and in the corners!

I recently tried to put up my old Carrera track and when I saw how little lane length I was going to have on my table I took it down again! Of course the Carrera is 1/24th scale, My Ninco track would have fit a little better, but Ninco is difficult with 1/43, because the rails are raised somewhat.

Cars aside track building is REALLY where 1/43 shines and at the end of the day is the deciding factor for me; what's the use of building a great looking car, if all you have to run it on is a little figure 8!? If I had a big barn, then I would run 1/32 all day long!

[Arkay]

One reason why I switched from all the bigger scales I had tried and done over the decades was to have more space for landscaping and also more or at least not less track length.
The other was the challenge. A huge selection of real scale kits in this scale, a lot of work of course, but just what I wanted - I'm a scratchbuilder.
I'm kind of an extremist, too. I measure all models / kits before I work on them. I ask sellers for the main dimensions before I bid. If the models aren' exact scale, I don't buy / build them.
I have no problems at all to build chassis in the same technical manner as in 32nd scale. This is not only part of the challenge I love, it is also the curiosity, the experiment. Until today I haven't built two chassis that are identical / equal. That reduces my "productivity", but - it's a hobby, neither a job nor a competition. 

For me 43rd scale has become the ultimate scale. Today I think I should have switched to it 
much sooner.

Roland

N.B.: I have just read Pfuetze's list of GO! tyre diameters in the other thread. They are just one of the two reasons why I will never ever buy a Go!....