What Are Your Thoughts on This Subject?

[Florida_Slotter]

[HomeRacingWorld]

I don't think it makes any difference. Or at least any difference you will really notice.

I have also stored models in a case like that, for well over a year.

No issues with the motor or the magnets as far as I can tell.

But I am not using any high tech meters to test these items. But I don't need a meter to tell me if my motor is soft. Several Fly classics were in there and they are plenty strong.

[HomeRacingWorld]

Yes, the tires. I suppose there is logic to that.

But on that note some of my Fly and other cars have had the tires flat spot and dry hard just sitting in the case it came in :)

Perhaps I am off base. I was meaning no harm...as in loading it up and taking them to the track. Not permanent storage.

That Craftsman box you show and the Kobalt one at Lowe's is the 2 major boxes I see at many events.

[nhdungeonracer]

[Florida_Slotter]

Harry,

Hey! (that's one of those Sy Roberson comments)

I think some of those Fly tires would grow hard and flat-spotted if they were stored in a weightless vacuum. Perhaps we can do a test by sending them up to the International Space Station :?:

Personally I love the look, feel and smell of a wood box. I have had many over the years. But the cost of a well made wood box - even if you build it yourself - is higher then the $50 of the box shown. Also once you get the finish of the wood so nice, the first dent is very frustrating. Kind of like when you have a 'collector car' and someone opens their door into the side of it and screws up your high dollar paint job! :mad:

Since you continue to 'bait me' into getting involved in all these cars, I am just looking toward the future and making sure I have the ability to carry enough cars with me to events.

BTW I'm going there will soon be a box for NASCAR, Group C, Group 2, Group 5, Can-Am, Interseries, LMP, GT1, etc :clap:

[ElSecundo]

Are you guys sure you really want the scientific explanation? You'll have to do some reading and not skip any details, but I don't want to type it all out if it's just going to be wasted effort. :lol: It does involve the nature of matter and why things are magnetic in the first place.

[ElSecundo]

Yes, I would, as long as I can keep the tires from flat-spotting. I would also expect a very, very small (negligible) degradation if I was storing more than one car at a time. But I would not store wing cars this way.

[Wolseley Hornet]

I know you shouldn't jump to conclusions about people you haven't met, but I get the distinct impression that quite a few of us here are of an age where, amongst our various medical challenges,cardiac pacemakers may feature.

Now strong rare earth magnets and pacemakers don't mix too well in close proximity, so carrying 40 or so magnets around in a box might just be a lot safer with the screening effect of a box made of steel.

Maybe someone who actually knows about the physics of magnets could comment.

David.

[ElSecundo]

OK guys, here goes nothin'. Sorry, Dennis. You might want to look away at this time. :)

David, first we start with the concept of a magnetic 'dipole'. A magnetic field always has a north and south pole, and there's no such thing as a magnetic monopole -- there is no magnet with just a magnetic north, or just a magnetic south. Just as important, each atom is essentially a tiny magnet. You know that there's a nucleus, you know that electrons are whizzing around the nucleus, and this gives each atom an electrical component and a magnetic component. Details not needed for this piece, but it's important to know that each atom is a magnetic dipole.

Second, what we call 'solid' matter is anything but solid. Looking at the simplest atom (hydrogen) with one proton and one electron: if we scaled this atom up until the proton was the size of a BB, and placed the BB at the 50 yard line of a football field, the single electron would be 1836 times smaller than the BB, and would be moving around that BB at an average distance that would put it in the endzone. All that empty space is the 'electron cloud', basically the electrical field of the atom. When two atoms collide, their nuclei don't get close to each other -- the electrical fields repel each other long before the nuclei get close. What we call contact, or collision, is just the electron fields pushing each other away.

The upshot of that is what we consider to be 'solid' like a piece of metal, or, say, a magnet isn't solid. There is a tremendous range of motion, and anything above the temperature of absolute zero is in a constant state of vibration. So if you hold a piece of metal in your hand, you're holding a collection of atoms contained in a fairly loose lattice, mostly empty space and free to move....and each of these atoms is a tiny magnet.

So if each atom is a tiny magnet, why isn’t everything magnetic? Each of these tiny magnets is randomly aligned, and the combined magnetic fields are pointed all over the place. To create a magnet, a large number of these tiny magnetic dipoles have to be aligned together. The combined effect of all these aligned dipoles is a directed magnetic field, and we have what we’d call a magnet.

We have a permanent magnet when a large portion of these dipoles are aligned, and then they are locked into position. The most common way to create a magnet is to heat iron (making atoms more free to move), exposing the iron to a magnetic field which forces these dipoles to align, then suddenly cooling the iron, which more or less locks the dipoles in their aligned positions.

And that’s the key to the question. To change a magnet’s magnetic field, we need to expose it to a magnetic field to align (or misalign) the dipoles. An external magnetic field is needed to change the dipole alignment – so putting a magnet against material with no net magnetic field (a piece of steel) doesn’t misalign the dipole alignment. But when the HO guys talk about ‘zapping’ magnets, they are exposing their magnets to a stronger magnetic field to realign the dipoles.

Sorry for the long explanation, but does that help at all?

[4424ever]

Just tell them the box itself is charged to maintain magnets while the cars aren't in use, that will make them stop and think?

[ElSecundo]

[Florida_Slotter]

[FootScoot]

I think back in the early days of slot racing metal boxes would weaken magnets because they weren't made of the advanced materials we have today. Magnets back then were weak. I remember some of the rewinds we did were fast but barely had any braking ability at all. Champion came out with a new stronger magnet, which was a soft cobalt and it worked much better, but I would almost bet they aren't as good as the ceramics nowadays. There has been a lot of advances in magnet engineering and developement since the '60's :)

[RichD]

Back in the early '60s if you went to the hardware store and bought a magnet it was likely to be made of Alnico and it would come with a keeper so that it would not lose strength when it was not in use. If you took a slot car motor with an Alnico magnet apart the magnet would also lose strength and would have to be zapped for the best performance. At the time ceramic magnets were not as strong as Alnico magnets, but they were far more robust. Modern ceramic magnets are much more powerful than those '60s vintage ones and I doubt that they would be degraded when the cars were stored in a steel box. I am not so sure about the neo traction magnets. I do have a magnetometer, but I am not inclined to test any neo magnets because we do not use them.

[Wolseley Hornet]

Thanks for the explanations.

It's pretty clear that the box won't damage the magnets - but presumably it will have a screening effect by spreading the magnetic force over a wider area?

David.