D124 Motor Replacement Comparison (FINALLY)

[dw5555]

CARRERA 1/24 MOTOR SWAP STATS
THE REASON I GOT INTO THIS WAS BECAUSE BACK IN THE DAY I STARTED WITH 1/32 CARS AND I DIDN’T WANT TO BUY AN UPGRADED POWER SUPPLY FOR MY CARRERA TRACK TO RUN THE 1/24 CARS. THE STOCK CARRERA PS IN 1/32 IS 13.8V. ALL THE 1/24 CARS ARE DESIGNED TO RUN AT 18V.
OVER THE YEARS I HAVE USED MANY DIFFERENT MOTORS IN MY SWAPS. THESE ARE THE 3 MOTORS I PRIMARILY USE ALONG WITH TESTING A STOCK MOTOR AT 18V AND THE NEW KID ON THE BLOCK THE PIRANHA BALL BEARING MOTOR. WHICH I JUST GOT FROM CLOVERLEAF RACING. (THANKS MIKE)

ADVERTISED MOTOR RATINGS
*NOTE, THE RMS MOTOR IS DESIGNED AS A STRAIGHT SWAP WHERE THE OTHER MOTORS HAVE TO USE A MODIFIED POD AS DESCRIBED IN ANOTHER POST.

STOCK CARRERA:
18000 RPM @ 18V. 650g*cm TORQUE
IN CAR RPM: 13,325RPM@18V

RMS SUPER MOTOR: PROFESSOR MOTOR $14.99
30000 RPM @ 12V. 540g*cm TORQUE
IN CAR RPM: 26,405@13.8V
IN CAR RPM: 23,335@12V

FOX 10: PROFESSOR MOTOR $8.99
25000 RPM @ 12V. 196g*cm TORQUE
IN CAR RPM: 24,468@13.8V
IN CAR RPM: 21,560@12V

PIRANHA: CLOVERLEAF RACING $7.99
21500 RPM @ 12V. 165g*cm TORQUE
IN CAR RPM: 23,499@13.8V
IN CAR RPM: 20,591@12V

PIRANHA BALL BEARING: CLOVERLEAF RACING $12.99
25000 RPM @ 12V. 185g*cm TORQUE
IN CAR RPM: 27,616@13.8V
IN CAR RPM: 23,417@12V


CARS AND TRACK
AS LUCK WOULD HAVE IT I HAVE 4 MERCEDES SLS THAT ALL HAVE DIFFERENT MOTORS IN THEM. THE RED/SILVER MB WILL HAVE TO DO DOUBLE DUTY AS IT STILL HAS ITS STOCK MOTOR AND WILL BE CONVERTED TO THE PIRANHA BB. ALL THE CARS WEIGH IN AT 225-230 GRAMS WITH EXCEPTION OF THE STOCK MB. IT WEIGHS IN AT 240 GRAMS. THE REASON IS THE MOTOR. I WEIGHED THE STOCK MOTOR AND IT WEIGHS 12 GRAMS HEAVIER THAN THE OTHER MOTORS. ALL CARS ARE RUN WITH THE REAR MAGNET OUT AND THE CENTER MAGNET IN. TRUED PG TIRES ARE ON ALL THE CARS.
THE TRACK IS 110’ CARRERA WITH A 22’ LONG STRAIGHT SO THE CARS CAN STRETCH THEIR LEGS AND SOME TECHNICAL SPOTS. IT IS A FAST, GOOD FLOWING TRACK. IT HAS AN ADJUSTABLE POWER SUPPLY. A GREAT TIME IS 9.8 WITH MOST CARS IN THE LOW 10 RANGE. TYPICALLY I RUN MORE BRAKE BECAUSE OF THE SPEED THEY GET TO IN THE LONG STRAIGHT AND GETTING THESE HEAVY CARS SLOWED DOWN IN TIME FOR THE 90 DEGREE CURVE IS A MUST.

MOTOR IMPRESSIONS @ STANDARD CARRERA VOLTAGES (NOTE LAP TIMES)
STOCK CARRERA: 18V BEST LAP 10.391
SPEED SETTING 100%
BRAKE SETTING 10%
THE STOCK MOTOR IS NOT BAD AS LONG AS YOU’RE RUNNING 18V. IT HAS A GOOD POWER CURVE AND THE TORQUE GOT THE CAR MOVING QUICKLY. WHAT WAS SUPRISING IS THE AMOUNT OF BRAKES IT HAS. I HAD TO TURN THE BRAKES DOWN TO THE LOWEST SETTING TO GET SOME COASTING OUT OF IT.

RMS SUPER MOTOR: 13.8V BEST LAP: 10.315
SPEED SETTING 70%
BRAKE SETTING: 60%
THIS IS THE GUN IN THE KNIFE FIGHT. THIS CAR IS UNDRIVEABLE AT 100% POWER. EVEN THOUGH THE TORQUE ON THIS BEAST IS LESS THAN THE STOCK CARRERA MOTOR IT’S A LOT FASTER OUT OF THE HOLE. YOU HAVE TO BE CAREFUL COMING OUT OF A CURVE AS THIS WILL GET OUT OF CONTROL IN A HURRY. BRAKING IS NOT AS STRONG AS STOCK MOTOR. THIS IS A MOTOR THAT TAKES CONCENTRATION TO BE FAST.

FOX 10 MOTOR: 13.8V BEST LAP: 10.310
SPEED SETTING: 80%
BRAKE SETTING: 60%
THIS MOTOR HAS GOOD BALANCE BETWEEN POWER AND BRAKES. A LOT LESS TORQUE MEANS IT’S NOT GONNA WIN A DRAG RACES BUT WILL MAKE UP FOR IT WITH MORE SPEED OUT OF THE CURVES.

PIRANHA MOTOR: 13.8V BEST LAP: 10.365
SPEED SETTING: 100%
BRAKE SETTING: 60%
THIS MOTOR HAS THE LOWEST TORQUE RATING OF THE GROUP AND WITH THE WEIGHT OF THE CARS IT’S PUSHING ITS LIMIT. THE CAR IS SOFT OUT OF THE HOLE BUT ONCE IT GETS GOING IT CAN HOLD ITS OWN. AGAIN MORE SPEED OUT OF THE CORNER WITH LESS FISHTAILING KEEPS IT RUNNING IN THE PACK.

PIRANHA BB MOTOR: 13.8V BEST LAP: 9.937/10.157
SPEED SETTING: 80% & 70%
BRAKE SETTING: 70%
THIS IS THE NEW BIG BROTHER TO THE PIRANHA. I JUST GOT THIS AND PUT IT IN THE CAR BUT IT DOESN’T ACT THE WAY IT SUPPOSED TOO. I EXPECTED A LITTLE INCREASE IN POWER FROM LOOKING AT THE STATS BUT AT 80% POWER IT WAS RUNNING CIRCLES AROUND EVERYTHING. LOW END POWER WAS GOOD AND YOU COULD REALLY PUSH IT IN THE CURVES. I WAS RUNNING CONSISTENT 10.0-10.1. I HAD TO DROP THE POWER TO 70% TO MAKE IT COMPARABLE WITH THE OTHER MOTORS AND GOT IT RUNNING 10.3-10.4 WITH A BEST OF 10.157 BUT YOU COULD SEE AND TELL THERE WAS A LOT MORE USABLE POWER TO BE HAD. I CAN’T BELIEVE THAT THE BALL BEARINGS INCREASED THE POWER THIS MUCH OVER THE COMPARABLE FOX MOTOR. MAYBE I GOT THAT 1 IN 10 MOTOR THAT IS JUST CRAZY FAST.

MOTOR IMPRESSIONS AND TIMES @ LOWER VOLTAGES
STOCK CARRERA MOTOR: 13.8V BEST TIME: 12.337
SPEED SETTING: 100%
BRAKE SETTING: 10%
I INCLUDED THIS BECAUSE ANYONE THAT BUYS A 1/24 CAR AND PUTS IT ON THE TRACK WITH A 1/32 POWER SUPPLY IS GOING TO BE DISAPPOINTED. I RAN THE ENTIRE TRACK AT FULL THROTTLE WITH NOT A HINT OF FISH TAIL EVEN IN THE TIGHTEST CORNERS.

RMS SUPER MOTOR: 12V BEST LAP: 10.469
SPEED SETTING: 100%
BRAKE SETTING: 60%
AT 12V I WAS ABLE TO CRANK THE POWER TO 100%. IT’S STILL A BEAST WITH THE SAME ISSUES AS BEFORE. GOTTA WATCH COMING OUT OF THE CORNERS. I COULD PROBABLY IMPROVE THE TIME IF I CUT THE POWER DOWN A LITTLE MORE BUT I CAN’T HELP MYSELF, THIS MOTOR IS JUST WAY TO MUCH FUN.

FOX 10 MOTOR: 12V BEST TIME: 10.271
SPEED SETTING: 100%
BRAKE SETTING: 40%
I COULDN’T BELIEVE IT WHEN I LOOKED AT THE TIME. I THINK THIS IS THE SWEET SPOT. SURPRISINGLY THE LOW END POWER DIDN’T SEEM TO DROP OFF AS MUCH AND IT WAS MUCH SMOOTHER IN THE CORNERS ALLOWING EVEN MORE SPEED.

PIRANHA MOTOR: 12V BEST TIME: 10.621
SPEED SETTING: 100%
BRAKE SETTING: 40%
THE PIRANHA REALLY STRUGGLED AT THE LOWER VOLTAGE WITH THIS MUCH WEIGHT. VERY SLUGGISH OUT OF THE HOLE AND I COULD RUN ABOUT ½ THE TRACK AT FULL THROTTLE AND THE SHARPER CURVES WERE JUST A BLIP ON THE THROTTLE.

PIRANHA BB MOTOR: 12V BEST TIME: 10.201
SPEED SETTING: 100%
BRAKE SETTING: 50%
UNLIKE ITS SIBLING THE LOWER VOLTAGE DIDN’T AFFECT THIS MOTOR AS MUCH. LOW END POWER WAS STILL GOOD AND COULD TAKE MORE IN THE CURVES AND EXITING. THERE WERE A FEW SPOTS ON THE TRACK WHERE IT WAS WIDE OPEN WHERE IT WASN’T BEFORE AND YOU COULD SEE IT WAS DOWN ON POWER. ONE THING I FORGOT TO MENTION IS THIS MOTOR LACKS SOME BRAKING COMPARED TO THE OTHER MOTORS. I HAD TO INCREASE IT BY 10%. NOT A LOT BUT IT IMPROVED DRIVEABLITY.



THIS TESTING WAS ACTUALLY A SURPRISE TO ME AS I'VE NEVER REALLY DIRECTLY COMPARED THE MOTORS TO EACH OTHER BEFORE. THERE WAS NO RHYME OR REASON FOR THE MOTOR SELECTION. IT WAS JUST A MATTER OF USING WHAT I HAD ON HAND AT THE TIME. I JUST SET THE CARS UP TO RUN CLOSE TO EACH OTHER.
THIS IS OBVIOUSLY WHAT WORKS ON MY TRACK. MOST PEOPLE DO NOT HAVE THE ROOM TO INCORPORATE SUCH A LARGE TRACK. ON A SMALLER TRACK THE RESULTS WOULD PROBABLY BE DIFFERENT BECAUSE THE DEMANDS WOULD BE DIFFERENT.
THE IN CAR RPM'S WERE DETERMINED BY THE APP "GIRI". PROBABLY NOT THE MOST ACCURATE BUT IT SHOULD BE IN THE BALLPARK. I DON'T HAVE ANY FANCY TEST EQUIPMENT. (IE $10 TACH. LOL)

MAY ALL YOUR RACING BE FUN!
DAVE

[HomeRacingWorld]

Well I am not in this racing, but interesting report. Thank you, well done.

[FC47]

:text-thankyouyellow: Quite an effort Dave, Thanks for collecting up all that info

[WB2]

Bottom line: which one do you prefer?

[dw5555]

They all have their good and bad but let me say this. I have the Fox 10 motor in probably 70% of my cars. Mainly because it was cheap. I'm sure there are a ton of motors that can out perform what I have tested here but I needed to keep costs down and this was a good choice. It has the balance I was looking for. I'm still on the fence with the Piranha BB motor. It shouldn't have run like it did. I still think the motor might be a fluke. If not the Piranha BB is a great motor. It's not often you have to detune a motor to run with the pack.
Dave

[32lbking]

Great report Dave. I think the thing that surprises me most is the weight of the stock Carrera motor. It probably shouldn't though, as everything about Carrera is overbuilt.
Randy

[Fathead59]

I have a couple of the Piranha BB motors that I plan on using for 1/24 scale drag cars , do you like that motor ?

[TuscoTodd]

Great report and an interesting read!
Thank you for sharing!

[dw5555]

[mikeinclover]

Nice job Dave. Good information.
Mike

[Fathead59]

Thanks for the info Dave , I guess it will be test and tune to see what will work wit th the 1/24 , 1/25 scale drag cars I plan on building .

[RichD]

I can explain the results with the Piranha 25K motor. That motor has neo magnets and holes in the top and bottom of the case, so it will add a fair amount of extra magnetic downforce on a regular sectional plastic track. On a wood track with regular tinned copper braid there would be no added downforce of course. On a wood track with Magnabraid there would also be an increase in downforce. The extra downforce would cause more drag on a plastic track, making it seem like the motor had somewhat less power than you would expect, but the extra downforce would increase your cornering speeds.
It would be an interesting experiment to place some thin steel, like a piece of a soup can, over the bottom of the motor case. That would block a lot of the extra magnetic downforce. I would expect that the car would have more apparent punch, but it might be difficult to drive.
I have tested some motors for Slot Car Corner, those were intended to be between the Ninco NC-1 type and the Scalextric 18K motors in performance. Two slightly different test motors had been submitted by several makers, they were nominal 16K or 18K motors. Since the differences between the motors could be subtle I wanted to use a test procedure that would eliminate as many potential variables as possible. That meant that the same car had to be used with all of the motors and the track conditions had to be the same for each trial. I ran in all of the motors on the bench, flushed them with contact cleaner and oiled the bearings before I measured the RPMs at 12 volts. All of the motors had pinion gears installed when I took them for testing. I do not have my own 1/32nd track so I arranged to do the testing at Wayne's World, a four lane routed track with regular tinned copper braid and an adjustable regulated power supply. The car that I used was a Scalextric/Takara Toyota Supra with aftermarket wheels, axles, tires and gears. I ran the track for a few hundred laps using the original motor to be sure that it was as clean as possible. Slot cars without traction magnets pose special challenges. The Supra was well tuned, since I would have to remove the body to change motors I made sure that the amount of body float was always the same. Each motor was run on the track at 10 and 12 volts, the best lap time for each voltage was determined and any differences in the way that the car felt were noted. After the track testing was complete the RPMs were checked again.
I know that several other people did testing at the same time, I do not know what procedures they used or exactly what their results were. I believe that we tended to favor the same motors however.

[Fathead59]

And what is wrong about having 1/24 or 1/25 scale drag cars ? We all got into this hobby to do different things , I have my fair share of 1/32 cars , I just started doing them as a tribute for a friend , him and his dad had both of the cars in full size , and they dragged them at the local strip . There is a forum here for drag cars I know , but in this thread they were talking about motors , so I was trying to get info on the motors for what I was going to use them for

[dw5555]

Fathead you took my response wrong. I think drag cars are cool and wouldn't mind a dragstrip myself. I was referring the Torque/Rpm of the motor. Seems a little light on both for a drag car.
Dave