2019 Can-Am Proxy - Rules & Registration Thread

[Audi1]

As you can clearly see, I'm not an expert on FIA designations for any particular classes and if someone would like to help out in that capacity, then I would certainly appreciate it. The intent of what I posted was to make this a race for purpose built open cockpit Can-Am cars.

I like the way that GT6 has phrased it: "Specifically, Can-Am cars were classified in FIA Group 7. I believe the intent of the rules is to exclude FIA Group 6 and Group 5 cars (roughly speaking sport prototype and limited production sports racers that competed for the FIA World Sportscar Championship)." That was the intent of what I was trying to say and cars like the two examples that I gave; the Porsche 917k and the Ford GT-40 Mk1 fall, I think, into the FIA World Sportscar Championship category.

Hope this helps; thanks Scott.

Allan

[GT6]

I will try to compile a list of the Group 7 cars that competed in the Can-Am races from 1966 to 1974, but it may take a few days. As well I'll try to put together an outline of the various FIA designations during that period - Group 7 rules were fairly simple and stayed pretty consistent (which is why it would probably be a good idea to stick to only Group 7 cars in this proxy) but Groups 4, 5 and 6 regulations changed often and a lot. It's been about 50 years since I looked at the FIA rules so it could take some time to brush up on what was what :D .

cheers
Scott

[steeveew]

Sorry to cause any problems guy's. I didn't read the cut off date.
DOH !!!!

Steve

[F1Fan]

[chappyman66]

Partial list of eligible cars:
Lola T70 (open), T163, T260, T330
Chaparral 2E, 2G, 2H, 2J
McLaren Elva, M6, M8, M12, M20
Porsche 917-10, 917-30
Ferrari 350 CanAm, 612, 712
BRM P154
Shadow DN1, DN2, DN4
March 707
Wolverine
McKee Mk6, Mk10
Cooper Monaco
Lotus 23

These are all available, although some are a bit large (Vanquish) or a bit small (some Strombecker).

Others:
Genie Mk8, Mk10
Hamill SR3
BRM P163
Brabham BT8

Some of these may not be designed as Group7 cars originally, but they were entered or raced in a CanAm event.....Racingsportscars.com is your friend :lol:

[F1Fan]

Will the Vanquish cars be allowed, I think they are like 1/28 scale

Excluding the Vanquish, are there any rules around the size/dimensions/scale of (self-made or bought) resin castings/3D prints? Not many of the above mentioned cars are available from "standard" main-stream plastic slot car manufacturers, so entrants may be tempted make their own.

[SLOTTING SINCE 1963]

# 63 for me from across The Atlantic.

[Audi1]

[chappyman66]

And I can't believe I forgot the Ti22…..
D'oh!!!

[Rleog]

How about Tony Dean’s Porsche 908

http://www.motorsportsmarketingresource ... e-908.html

[Audi1]

Sorry, Bob. As much as I like Porsche-Audi, the 908-2 was a Group 6 Prototype-Sports Car. Dean's car is another examples of non-Group 7 cars that competed well in the Can-Am series.

Allan

[GT6]

OK, I've combed through the original start lists for each Can Am race held during the years 1966 through 1974. Listed below are the Group 7 cars that started at least one race. Each make is listed alphabetically in the first year that it was raced.

As in anything, there are a few gray areas and I'll bring those up in a separate post, along with a brief discussion of FIA Group 4, 5, and 6 and a list of the non-Group7 cars that ran in Can AM but are NOT eligible for this proxy.

FIA Group 7 (classification for the period 1966 to 1975):
Two-seater competition vehicles built exclusively for speed races on closed circuits. Engines over 5000cc capacity, no limitations on tires, aerodynamics, or dimensions. No minimum production requirement. Cars must be fitted with enclosed coachwork covering all mechanical components except intake and exhaust pipes, fenders covering a minimum of one-third the circumference of each wheel, windshield, two seats, two doors and a rollbar.

1966:
Burnette Special
Chaparral 2E
Chinook Mk1
Cooper Ford
Genie Mk10
Genie Vinegaroon
Hamil SR3
Lola T70 Mk2
Lotus 19B Ford
Lotus 30
McLaren Elva
McLaren M1B
McLaren Goth
Merlyn Mk8
Stanton Special
Webster Special (Lotus 23 Oldsmobile)
Wolverine

1967
Caldwell D7
Chaparral 2G
Ferrari 350 Can Am
Honker Ford
Lola T70 Mk3 and Mk3B
McLaren M6A
McLaren M1B
McLaren M1C
McLaren Elva Mk2
McKee Mk 7
Mirage Mk1B
Matich SR3
Shelby King Cobra

1968
Burnett Mk2
Burnett Mk3
Caldwell D7C
Ferrari 612
Lola T160
McLaren M8A
McL’eagle (McLaren Mk6)
McKee Mk10

1969
BVC Mk1
Chaparral 2H
Ferrari 712
Ford G7A
Lola T162
Lola T613
McLaren M8B
McLaren M12
McKee Mk 14
Open Sports Ford

1970
Autocoast Ti22
AVS Shadow
BRM P154
Chaparral 2J
Lola T220
Lola T160/3
Lola T165
March 707
McLaren M8C
McLaren M8D
Moore Mk2
Rattenbury Mk4
Terry T10

1971
BRM P167
Ferrari 712M
Hodges LSR Special (McKee)
Lola T222
McLaren M8E
McLaren M8F
Porsche 917/10
Shadow Mk2
Ti22 Mk2

1972
Duckhams Ford
Lola T260
Lola T310
McLaren M20
McLaren M8FP
Shadow Mk3

1973
Costello SP7
Porsche 917/30
Shadow DN2

1974
Costello SP8
Shadow DN4

cheers
Scott

[GT6]

And now for the cars that competed in Can Am but don't meet the Group 7 requirement. If you have a masochistic streak and like combing through arcane regulations, the full definitions for the 1966 FIA classifications are in FIA Appendix J: https://argent.fia.com/web/fia-public.n ... on_English).pdf

Here's my interpretation of what's in those rules. Note that other than Group 7, which stayed the same from 1966 to 1975, the rules and even entire classifications change throughout the period in question, meaning the same car could be in different groups depending on the year.

Group 6 Prototype Sports Car (classification for the years 1966 and 1967)
Two seat prototype sports cars. No engine capacity limit. Coachwork to cover the specified dimensions for interior passenger seating, luggage and a spare tire. Coachwork covering all mechanical components except intake and exhaust pipes, fenders covering a minimum of one-third the circumference of each wheel. Symmetrical windscreen of at least 25 cm vertical height and 90 cm width (at mid height). Minimum weight
Examples: Ford GT40 Mk II and MkIV, Ferrari 330 P4, Chaparral D and F

1968 - Engine capacity limited to 3000cc. Requirements for luggage and spare tire dropped; windscreen and passenger compartment dimensional requirements relaxed
Examples: Ferrari 312P, Porsche 908/01 /02 /03

1972 - former Group 6 regulations redesignated as Group 5


Group 4 Sports Cars (classification for the period 1966 to 1968)
Two seat production sports cars with engine capacities up to 5000cc. Minimum 50 cars must be produced with identical* coachwork, chassis, engine, transmission suspension and braking system.
*Some options such as hardtop/spyder body styles, cosmetic alterations, etc. allowed.
Example: Ford GT40 Mk I

1969 – minimum production number reduced to 25

1970 – former Group 4 regulations redesignated as Group 5
Examples: Porsche 917K and 917L, Ferrari 512

1972 – cars in former Group 5 no longer fit any lower group regulations, so the only class under which they are eligible becomes Group 7

So here is a list of Group 4, 5 and 6 cars that ran in Can Am races but are eligible for 2019 Can Am Proxy
Alfa Romeo T33/3 and 33/4
Bizzarrini P358
Brabham BT8
Ferrari 250 LM
Ferrari Dino 206
Ferrari 330 P3/4 Spyder
Ferrari 330 P4
Ferrari 312
Ferrari 512S and 512P
Ford GT40 Mk1
Lotus 19 (Climax engine)
Lotus 23 (Climax engine)
Matra MS 630/650
Matra MS650
Porsche 906
Porsche 908, 908/02 and 908/03
Porsche 917K and 917 PA
Shelby Cobra

While the Group 4, 5 and 6 cars performed admirably in Can Am I think there is sufficient variety in the Group 7 list of the previous post to allow anyone to pick a great entry.

Now about those gray areas.
First off, you'll notice that some cars where "orphaned" into Group 7 when the regulations changed so that they were no longer legal in Group for which they were originally designed to race. A notable example is the Porsche 917K that lost its Group 5 status in 1972 and became a Group 7 car. I would suggest that for this proxy, only the cars originally designed to be Group 7 competitors be allowed and not cars that later were reclassified due to rule changes.
Second point, there are a few cars, notably the Lotus 19B and the Lotus 23 Oldsmobile "Webster Special" that started out as small bore under 2 liter four bangers, but had a large nasty 'merican V8 dropped in and the body work cobbled about to fit a set of huge tires. Technically a Group 7 car (and a very scary drive) - is the name change (adding a "B" or calling it a "So & So Special") sufficient to make it legal in this proxy? I think they were certainly in the spirit of Can Am's "no holds barred, hell bent for leather" attitude.

So there you have it.
Have fun
Scott

[Audi1]

Thanks for the list, Scott; very helpful.

Allan

[F1Fan]

Thanks Scott, lot's of work!

Allan, will Betta Classic bodies be allowed? They have a number of cars in this category. They also have two types, classic and clear

I am confident that most proxy racers subscribe to the "honour" system, on this forum and others, and I am confident that very few, or no-one will intentionally break the rules, but sometimes it is better to clear the air and make sure we are all on the same page before the race starts!

You need to wake up early in the morning and bring your A+ game to beat the likes of Smokeio and Gascarnut to name but two, and I would like nothing more than to win another CAN-AM series, but this does not come without effort and careful scrutiny of the rules and options.

Thanks for providing as much clarity and guidance in the rules as possible, sometimes the devil, and the win, lies in the details!

As a well known proxy race winner once said..."I drink beer for a good time, I enter proxy racing to win!" :lol: :auto-driving:

Chris