Taming the Beast

[mrstumpyHO]

A group I race with runs what we call "Outlaw Modifieds" based on the Auto World/Johnnie Lightning chassis. The bodies are customized to look like dirt track Modified Stock Cars, and we even run AW/JL rear tires and wheels on the front to get the right "look" and soak up the bumps common with sectional track. Slip on silicone tires are allowed on stock wheels on the rear, but otherwise the chassis must remain "stock," or "as manufactured." It's a fun class and "Outlaw" because the area T-jet racing clubs will not allow the AW/JL cars to run, nor do they like oval track racing.

On hard acceleration or trying to give the car more throttle in a turn, the car tends to "wheelie" or jump out of the slot. Obviously, the AW/JL chassis has a hotter armature than the older T-jets and the final gearing is different, both aggravating the situation. We've tried adding a few ounces of weight between the front axle and bulkhead between it and the armature. But the problem is still unsolved.

I'd hate to see the class "go away" as the cars are cheap and by keeping them "stock" this hasn't become a "builder's class" like the Super Stocks are. But this hard acceleration problem caused a lot of trouble at the last race at Monkey Wrench Speedway, especially running it as a "crash and burn" race.

Okay gang, what's the answer? How do we tame these little beasts?

Stumpy Stone ...puzzled in Ahia :character-oldtimer:

[RV Racing]

A few thoughts and suggestions:

1. Reduce the pickup shoe pressure -- trim a few coils off the springs.
2. Drop the voltage (if you have an adjustable power supply).
3. Use "softer" controllers (125-140 ohm).
4. Make sure the tires and wheels are really round -- those JL/AW wheels and axles can be pretty nasty,with a lot of runout that can bounce the car out of the slot. Sandpaper is your friend here <g>.

It sounds like a fun class, and deserves to survive. Please post some pictures.
Hope this helps,
Rick V.

[TuscoTodd]

Stumpy -
Something I thought of at lunch...
Has anyone tried limiting the pick-up shoes travel either through bending over the tops or placing heat shrink tubing/tape over the upper portion of the shoe slot so that the shoes loose contact before the guide comes out of the slot? Might be worth trying as well?

Rick - I'll have to snap a couple pics of the cars I put together for this class - they definitely make for a fun class that is inexpensive to jump in on! :)

[RV Racing]

[gonegonzo]

Todd ,

I haven't tried limiting the shoes . I ruin more shoes trying that LOL . Maybe the shrink tube or the plastic block will work . Worth a try .

S G Dave ,

The sock rubber tires are replaced with silicones to gain a "true" tire . The stockers are bumpy and out of round not to mention the wheels . Also the stockers go glass hard in no time . I do see your idea though .

Gonzo

[mrstumpyHO]

I've been thinking along many of these same lines but hoped I could pick up a few more ideas here, and you have provided some! As gonegonzo says, we went to silicones because finding true AW tires is a pain. But I've been thinking about sanding stock rear tires to try to get them closer to round. Compared to slip on silicones this may cut down traction enough to help solve the problem.

Limiting the pick up shoe travel may help, but I've seen these cars wheelie so hard at the start that they pull the pin, shoes, and front tires high enough to deslot the car before stalling. A longer guide pin might be helpful, but the slot isn't deep enough to allow enough length to make a difference. We are also considering adding axle weights to the front end, which will put us back on stock front tires to allow enough space for the weights. Sadly, this will mean giving up the wide front wheels and tires that give these cars the distinctive Modified look and added weight themselves. For a few photos of this class (and others we run) go to http://hovalracing.weebly.com .

Reducing voltage is probably the best solution as I've seen it done in club racing to suit many different kinds of cars. The problem is that no variable power unit is available to us currently. Typical HO train power packs only put out a maximum of 12 volts, which may not be enough. But gonegonzo is going to try it on Monkey Wrench Speedway. I've got an old Lionel train transformer that puts out 18 volts at 1.75 full amps, but is AC power. Maybe that could be used with a rectifier in the line?

It may come down to using ALL of the suggestions to tame these little beasts! Keep the ideas coming and we'll try 'em.

Stumpy in Ahia :character-oldtimer:

[RichD]

HOCOC has a class for Johnny Lightning/Auto World cars, we run them with Fairgrounds or Super Late Model bodies. The cars have weighted front ends and aftermarket wheels with slip-on silicone tires. We normally run our tracks at 18.5 volts. Limiting the shoe travel is a good idea with any HO car. I hope you are not adding ounces of weight to your cars! A few grams should do the trick. Using a weighted front end puts the weight where it does the most good. T-Jet type cars have minimal magnetic downforce, but JL/AW magnets are quite strong and a car with smaller diameter tires will get the magnets closer to the rails for more downforce. You could try some aftermarket shoe springs, I use Dr. Oogan springs.
There is more information on tuning JL/AW cars here: https://drive.google.com/open?id=0BzLR4 ... 1BKZmtDLWs

[TeamMadMarsupial]

[mrstumpyHO]

The rules we devised when we started require the car to be "stock" except for the tires and a little weight in front. We do not allow chassis magnets on the AW/JL cars (none of the area clubs allow them on any T-jet type cars.) Also, not all AW cars have a magnet and those that do have just the small round "dot" magnet which is ineffective for the problem we're having. We've been putting a small bit of lead weight between the front axle and the front armature bulkhead, which only puts it "close" to where it needs to be.

Weight on axles outboard of the chassis DOES work well on Super Stocks, so it should help us with the AW/JL cars too! But we need something simple and cheap and as "stock" as possible. Tom found brass weights that attach to the wheels of AW cars that seem to be effective, but I don't know where he got them. I've made axle weights out of brass tubing and sheet lead, but it's a pain in the butt, and many of our racers don't have the needed scratch building skills.

I think reducing voltage to the track is a key to taming these over powered and over geared cars, but we haven't tested that yet.

TeamMadMarsupial: I love those Modifieds! Where did you get them? What chassis do they fit? I've been experimenting with battered old bodies to make Modifieds for my Slotless racing too.

Stumpy in Ahia :character-oldtimer:

[vabchrog]

Weaker magnets take a lot of the punch out of the auto world cars. Try restricting the pickups with a thin strip of duct tape or use heat shrink both work. The tungsten putty works good on the front end between the axel holes in the chassis. We ran a similar class but the chassis had to have AFX wheels front and rear on JL chassis.

I well tuned TJET on a small track runs ok on 12 vdc give it a try

http://www.amazon.com/s/?ie=UTF8&keywords=tun

[gonegonzo]

Stumpy ,

I thought I got the wheel weights from RGHO . I went to his site and can not find them . I'm trying to think of someone that has a lathe that will run some off for me .

Oh yeah >>> the vocational school . I'll pay them a visit tomorrow if I have a chance .

Gonzo

[TeamMadMarsupial]

The wheel weights for the stock JL front ends probably came from JW's. They were his part # F16. Unfortunately, I am of the understanding that nothing has come from JW's for more than a year now?

I'd agree with two of the suggested methods to tame these cars down. Probably the easiest would be to turn down the voltage on the track if possible? We run 24v on our road courses, but I tune down to 12 to 14 volts on my short "Dirt Track". The other option that I feel would work well would be to change out the magnets for old original equipment Aurora magnets.

As for the Modifieds, I scratch build and hand paint them. I have a garage thread on here, I'll try to post something new to boost it to page one. Have built over a thousand of these over the course of a few decades. Also race them in a more or less open T-Jet class, very open rules and we run strictly "Crash & Burn" rules.

[RichD]

24 volts is a lot! Are you sure that is really what you have when the cars are running? If your power supply is not regulated the voltage can drop a lot when a load is applied.. T-Jets will start to get to be hard to drive once you go over 20 volts or so, even if they have added weight. We run one class with no armature restrictions and some of the cars can be difficult to drive at 18.5 volts. For our last race I put a couple of diodes between the controller and the white track connection which dropped the voltage to 17. I was running on a 4X12 foot banked oval.
We also race G-Jets at 12 volts, once in a while someone forgets to turn the voltage back up after we run those and the regular T-Jets seem to be very slow.

[mrstumpyHO]

Gonegonzo is scheduling a test and Tune at Monkey Wrench Speedway next week. Since there are no more JW's front wheel weights to be had, I added an ounce of lead behind the front axle and swapped the silicone rears to the front and the stock AW tires to the back. I decided to try the AW Vega body and an old Dash (I think)Studebaker Avanti body to get as low as I can go. (I like Studebakers because they're unusual today. I run a '53 Starlight Coupe and '57 Hawk in our Fairgrounds Stocker class, so why not an '62 Avanti Modified?)

Meanwhile, Gonegonzo has rounded up a train power pack so we can try reducing the voltage. I think the lower voltage deal is the best solution if we can do it.

Stumpy in Ahia :character-oldtimer:

[Ralphthe3rd]