Slotless MagRacing Oval Track

[TSMRA]

Let me start by stating that my main interest would be to adapt this system to 1/24th scale car. Dirt cars in particular like open cockpit and modifieds. It looks interesting but there are some concerns.

Questions:
1. What are the lane change plates made of?
2. Could MIG welding wire be substituted for the piano guide wire?
3. I see talk of increasing the battery voltage, would the rest of the cars' system (steering coil, radio chip) be compatible with the increased voltage? Maybe additional electronics to cut the voltage to the circuit board?
4. How do you think there would be any problems when entering turns after a long straight?

Observation:
1. If the steering is not proportional it seems there isn't a need for the steering wheel on the controller. Ditch it and replace with 2 buttons on a pad the could be mounted where ever is most comfortable.

[Nor Cal Mike]

[Vintage 1/24]

[Nor Cal Mike]

The key to making the passive magnetic tiller steering work is that there be no resistance to it's movement. Wes's magnetic coil steering acts directly on the tie rod without any linkage to create drag so when it is not in use the active steering doesn't influence the movement of the passive system at all.. To convert other higher end RC cars to work with the mag steer is to either make the transmitter activate Wes's steering coil that is installed in the higher end car or to make some other active system that completely disengages when not in use. If anyone knows of another RC system that would work, I would love to hear about it.

[Vintage 1/24]

NorCal-

There are many low-voltage High-Performance motors, quality speed controls with reverse, transmitters, and pretty sophisticated suspension, and interesting misc. parts available in the RC world right now - and that is cool for MagRacer scratch builders!

But Yes, the steering has to be the "linkage free with steering coil" style that you describe - those are out there and available in many low-end RC cars and trucks - very, very, common in the "toy" market.

I still think the "linkage free with steering coil" steering design should allow me to build up to the larger 1/24 scale cars - but maybe no larger?

I *do have a plan* to MagRace the BIG cars - Driveway or Parking lot kind of stuff - with proportional heavy duty servos - but I would guess that is a way off...

Actually I have been most busy racing slot cars lately - I raced in the Reality Raceway Modified Tour last Saturday and that was fun - but I do hope to develop at least one scratch built MagRacer and show how that might be done.

How is your new track coming along?

[Nor Cal Mike]

One thing that I am unsure of if upscaling this and adding more grip is that Wes's steering coil barely operates the steering with the small plastic tires. It won't even operate them the car isn't rolling. By adding any resistance weather it be in mass or grip (adds friction) I am afraid the active steer wouldn't operate at all using Wes's components. I think that either a more powerful magnetic coil would have to be used or some other steering mechanism is required. I have two theories that may or may not work but I will throw them out here for you all to pick them apart or perhaps add something I hadn't thought of.

The first idea is to simply add a stronger steering coil.This could be accomplished with more winds of wire. Another idea would be to have two coils rather than one so that one is pulling the permanent magnet on the tie rod while the other is pushing it away. The two coils would have to be "timed" by wiring them into the system in opposite polarity when the active steering mechanism is activated.

The second idea is this. The car would operate at all times under the active steering system. The mag tiller, instead of being mechanically linked to the steering, would instead run a swiper across a series of plates connected to diodes just as an electronic controllers does to operate speed control of a slot car. The varying current passed through the diodes as they are swiped by the contact on the mag tiller inputs varying amount of current to the active steering to make the car steer. The active steering in the transmitter also feeds voltage to the steering to also operate it form the driver end. The benefits of this is that there could be a more powerful steering system that would allow allow the car to break free of the wire at will, and proportional steering would be possible. If that were patched into a more robust RC system, the bar is raised much higher in terms of potential performance.

[TSMRA]

Thank you Nor Cal Mike and Vintage 1/24 for filling in some of the holes. I am not at all familiar with RC cars but guess it is time to learn. Checked out the MAG racing site and forum over the last couple of days to learn a bit more about it all. The MAG racing idea is pretty cool and a far sight less expensive than digital. A sectional MAG track should be way easier to build than a slot track.

1. I didn't really see the plates the first time around on the wire installation video because I cut it off early. Looks like the wire could just be doubled up at the junctions and maybe skip the plates.

2. MiG wire is cheap, around 5 bucks for a 2# spool of .030 store brand and don't have to pay shipping. Plus I work in welding supply store.

3. Kinda figured that the ESC would be the limiting factor on what motor could be used. Also thinking to keep the scale speeds with the heavier 1:24 cars they would need a little more motor so it's good to hear that there are stronger motors at the same voltage.

4. Was wondering if the larger heavier car would be able to be driven as hard as the smaller car in to the turn. Maybe use a thicker guide wire to keep the experience the same with the larger scale.

The controller looks to be for a left hander, but Vintage has a good work around there.

My thoughts almost immediately went to "what cheap small RC cars are here in town". Going to have to check out the local second hand and big box stores. What it seems to come down to is needing only the electronics form Wes's cars for 1:24.

Thanks again guys.

[Nor Cal Mike]

#1 Today I pulled one of my plates because it had lifted in the gluing proccess and the mag tiller was nicking it as the car passed over. I Was going to re-glue the plate when as a lark, I picked up my Arrow JT21 stapler and drove 6 staples in in place of the plate and then hammered them flush to the surface. The car changes lanes over the staples as well as it does over the plates. The key is that whatever you use as plates, should be flush with the height of the wire.

#2 The .030 wire is pretty close to the .028 music wire so it probably will work. Different alloys of steel have different magnetic traction so that is a question though most likely will work fine.

3# I am no expert on this but I think the amperage draw would just as important if not more than voltage to the ESC. Most electronics can handle a little variation in voltage without burning out but putting more amperage draw through them can be their death knell. Even running higher amperage motors at the same voltage may not be good for an ESC that isn't robust enough.

#4 The guide wire need not be any heavier than what it takes to operate the mag tiller. Other than mass or greater friction through the use of stickier tires, I think the tiller on the larger car would work about to the same. The heavier the wire, the more the magnetic attraction, the more the drag you will get (just like running magnets in slot cars) that may overwork an already overtaxed ESC.

# Cheap RC Cars If you are going to get cheap RC cars and plan to use its ESC, make sure you get one with proportional throttle control. I have a $30, 1/24 Miasto Barracuda here but it has all on, all off throttle control. It's pretty much useless though it has a a 3 volt C can drive motor plus another C can motor up front that drives the steering mechanism. As is, the car is not much use for magsteer except for the nice looking body and the motors. Parts is parts.

[JimD]

Any new info re this system? I have seen most of the videos and it looks very interesting.

Question when it comes to an oval using this spotless system. Does it make any sense and is it possible to go three wires/lanes instead of only two? Still with a racing line, so you could have a wide dirt track style oval and run three wide down the straights?

Jim

[Vintage 1/24]

I haven't done much with it - I have been fooling around with the slots - and also I have to say there is very little interest from slot racers... I think it may just take someone to build up a full size setup to win over converts - but I don't know...

But yes, you could definitely run three lanes wide, then down to two or one - whatever you can dream up really...

Basically there is a lot of flexibility in design - cars can even run on the wire in either direction - etc.

I know this thread has been siting idle for a while - I was hoping NorCal would post up some of his latest "slotless" work - and I think there is another (larger) oval track in the works from another builder as well...

[Wolseley Hornet]

Well, I think you've done very well to get the beautiful oval up and running,Vintage - and demonstrating that it works so well.

I'm only just back into slot cars, and still getting to grips with slot car building, and track building - not to mention actually driving them; so I may never progress to slotless racing.

My son, on the other hand is a notorious 'early adopter', and has already bought one of the cars to see what he can do with it.He's particularly wrestling with a routing method of building track.

Could you possibly post a photo of your Dremel set up for cutting the groove for the wire?


David.,

[Vintage 1/24]

I *really feel* this is the way to go. I simply glued a piece of 1/4" MDF board (what I was using to make the test track anyhow) to the bottom of the cutoff saw and the depth was perfect. I simply push the wire into the groove in place with a metal putty knife - super easy - one easy motion. I didn't even draw the lines that well - I find the saw is easy to maneuver and I can always make more cuts - filling a tiny "score" or groove is also no problem.

DREMEL CUTOFF SAW METHOD–


After I am happy with the position of the "lanes" - I just used carpenter's glue (that yellow Elmer's kind of stuff) in the groove - then push the wire in with the metal putty knife and wipe the excess off with a damp cloth. Done. Very easy. I really made the track in an afternoon - enough to run on anyhow. I added paint and the little walls another day.

If you look on page one of this thread you will see how nicely the wire fits the little score or groove.

I picked up my Dremel cutoff saw accessory at Home Depot right off the rack for $25-30, and since I had a Dremel motor already, I went right to work.

[Wolseley Hornet]

Many thanks for the pictures and very clear explanation.

I think there will be another track in Wales very soon (No1 son lives in Cardiff), thanks to you!

David.

[Riley Elf]

I'd also like to second Wolseley Hornet's thanks for the clear explanation of the Dremel method. One additional question. How did you make the lane change plates flush with the track surface? Wes' advised me that very shallow routing would be necessary. I'm not confident I can route a 0.7mm recess accurately. Any ideas?

[JimD]

I guess I missed it, is there a piece of plate in the surface for the lane change areas, like a triangle or some shape to transition to the other lane?

Jim