What Carrera car would be the fastest in almost stock form?

[DManley]

We have three or four people casually talking about doing some racing up here. We are at the point of trying to come up with classes to race. We will pull out our old Carrera Vintage NASCARs, but we need a couple of classes that the new guy (And any others we can recruit) can buy off the shelf. One of the classes that came up was a stock Carrera class. The cars would run out of the box with only replacement braids and guide shimming allowed. The alternate guide would be allowed on the Scalextric track. The other option being considered is the same basic class, but allowing Paul Gage tires, nail polish on the fronts and sanding the chassis/body for float. I was suggesting limiting magnetic downforce, to keep things equal, but we have no easy way to check it right now. It will just be the honor system and looking closely to make sure the magnets are stock. I was also suggesting picking a particular class of cars from Carrera and running them together, like GT3 cars or DTM cars. The consensus of the other three guys was to make it wide open to any Carrera. I have a few Carrera cars, but I don't want to buy the whole catalog to see which is the fastest! I am guessing that my Lola 222, or the 917K would be hard to beat, but I don't have a Cheetah or 917/30 to run them against. With either tire rule, I will be truing them until I am almost laying on the rails. Any ideas on what I might need? The other guys will manage to find the fastest Carrera out there, so I need to be ready for them.

We will be running once in a while on a large Scalextric Sport layout and weekly on a pretty tight Artin layout. The Artin layout will be 12' and be an "L" shaped layout. I will have a R3/R4 turn connecting the long straight to the "L", so it will have a bit of a fast spot, but that track will be mostly about handling and driving. (Artin track has a touch more downforce than Carrera, but it uses stainless rails, so it doesn't have the pull that Scalextric track does.) I am guessing that we will need to build two separate cars in the long run, as the tracks might reward different setups. For right now, I will concentrate on setting up a fast car for Artin track. Power will be regulated. (Fixed voltage at about 13.8)

Any thoughts on rules as we go ahead? The NASCAR cars will either be run with rear magnets removed, or we will just take all of the magnets out so we can run old and new ones together. (We'll have to see how the newer ones run against the old chassis with the slider magnets) These guys want to go fast, so one non magnet class is all I'm going to get! The guys want an open class with tons of magnets and huge motors, but neither of the track owners have power supplies capable of feeding those cars. I might go to batteries, but not until I move back into my own house. The other class will probably be a "Super Stock" class. (Any plastic chassis car with full stock body, stock motor, stock magnet in stock location. Any tires, any guide, braid, gearing and glued bushings... Chassis can be sanded to float.) This class makes me wonder how big the mangnets in the NSR lightweight Moslers are.

Thanks for your help. I'm hoping Dave Kennedy can shed some light on the secret Carrera model that's 17% faster out of the box than any other. :lol:

[Dangermouse]

Some of the Carrera cars came with a FF050 motor in them (mostly the Can Am cars I think) - I have found these to quicker than the FC130 motored cars

From http://slotcarnews.blogspot.com.au/2007 ... -list.html

Carrera E-200, E-500 (FC-130) [21,081 RPM/12v] 26,000/14.8v, tested 18,058-20,6340 RPM/12v
[96 gcm/12v] 118 gcm/14.8v, tested 99 gcm/12v, tested 4.8W/12v

Carrera F1, KTM X-Bow (FF-050) tested 24,872-25,095 RPM/12v
tested 112-115 gcm/12v, 7-7.1W/12v

Have found the Cobra to be the quickest of the classic cars if you are running with magnets. The 917k is quick - I have a BMW and Merc DTM and both seem on par. My Corvette C6R (black and white) is a pearler - I love this car - very quick - we ran a GT class and together with a mate who ran a Carrera Z4 we cleaned up winning our heats when we didn't race each other and finishing 1st and 2nd (me) overall I claim he won because it was his home track :).

[Cincyslots]

I prefer the C7R

Bruce

[DrumPhil]

If you want pure stock speed, the F1 cars have it. They are so light and have large rear tires (by scale), that they scream around the track. The light weight makes them very twitchy, though, so you really have to learn to control them. Urethane tires helped significantly. On my (former) Carrera Digital track, the F1s held the track record by a comfortable margin, but the GTs (Porsche 911, Ferrari 458, Corvette) were more fun to drive.

[Modlerbob]

The latest Aston Martin is my fastest Carrera 1/32 analog slot car. I guess I just got lucky with the motor. I only have one Carrera F1 car, a Ferrari, but the pinion gear spins on the motor shaft and I haven't been brave enough to take it apart to fix it.

[RazorJon]

Cobra out of the box blew my track record away, Cheetah would be a close second

An easy way to test magnetism is get a Carrera straight, put car on track, turn track upside down, if the car holds the track upside down its got to much mag

[chappy]

If you dont mind going back a bit, the Ferrari 512BB cars were very good.
low wide and good handling, between them and the corvettes for a GT car.
You will find the Carrera mags have a lot of pull on tracks other than Carrera.
So we used to put the mags in the highest position, due to the fact the magnet resistance actually
got the motor so hot the plastic pinion would spin on the motor shaft. Thats when we wentnto a brass pinion, and eventually it ate the crown gear, so we swapped it out for a slot it.
But we had more fun with that class than any other, due to the closer tolerances of the Carrera build creating a very close field .
Have fun
Bob

[DManley]

Thanks guys! I just got a C6 in the mail, but I haven't even run it yet. (Still getting the track together in the new configuration. The Cobra and Cheetah are two that I don't have, but they are both on my list. I was going to order a pile of parts and tools this week and tack a quartet of cars onto the order. (2 Cheetahs, a Cobra and the black '67 Corvette.) It sounds like I was on the right track!
Jon, that's funny about the Carrera straight idea. I was just going through my cars last night doing that with an Artin straight trying to see which ones had the most pull. The Scalextric 1959 Mini hung on upside down and took a pretty good shake to get off. As I was doing that, I was thinking of that as a possible test method. I was thinking of building a go-no go gauge for magnetism by setting up a masonite jig with a couple of strips of steel embedded in it and disqualifying any cars that can stick to it inverted. My thought was that I could make ones with different sizes of steel for different classes. I like your idea better. The fast class would be measured with a piece of Carrera track, and the slow class would be measured with a piece of Scalextric! (In my mind, it would take a lot more magnetic force to hang from a piece of Carrera track than it would Scalextric.) I'll have to get my hands on a couple of track pieces and test my theory.

I thought of the F-1 cars too, but the other guys had already agreed that they would race full bodied cars. The local track used to have F-1 races back in the day, and they were too carnage filled. Nobody could keep the front axles straight for more than a segment or two. I remember when I thought buying four Scalextric IRL Dallaras in white and painting them to match my lane colors would be a good way to get a set of IROC cars. After one evening I had a shoebox filled with pretty little pieces of painted plastic. I haven't raced open wheel cars since!

I'll have to look at the motor labels on my Lola 222. It does feel a bit punchier than my other Carreras. It had the best time for a stock Carrera on my old layout. I am about a week away from having the track fully functional with an operating timing system, so I will use the time I have to go through all of my Carreras and get them perfect. I am getting Paul Gage tires for some of them, but I will speed test all of the cars before switching any of them over. That way the cars are all on fairly equal footing for the initial tests. It's going to be a lot of fun to get racing again, even if it is just a small group in the spare room.

Again, thanks everybody! I know I can always count on you for some great answers.

[loosewheel]

I vote for the McLaren and the Cobra, both are well planted and quick. Even on larger tracks.

[Brumos RSR]

In magnet racing on a Carrera track, with tires limited to OEM or Paul Gage, the 917K and Lola have been tough to beat at the Overland Mo track we race on. GT class the C7 vette and the GT Ferrari 348. That said my son won Pro class w his 904 but leads his ProX class with the 917k.

[WB2]

Sounds like too much worry about fast.
There's nothing more monotonous that having four or eight lanes crammed full of the same "fast" car.
Why not pick a car based on your favorite 1:1 brand, an eye-popping paint scheme, or some other scenario?

As an idea, pick DTM as a class. There are three marques of cars available. All marques have multiple paint schemes.
If you have six people in your group, each person makes a list of his six pick cars.
Draw straws. #1 gets his pick of car. #2 (and so on) picks his highest ranked car off his list if it's not already picked by someone else.
You end up with six different cars with similar performance. Each driver has a car the he picked himself. And, you don't end up trying to figure out which one of six identical cars is yours on the track.

Just my five cents (inflation, ya know) worth.

Dave

[busterfla]

The DTM's would be my pick, we pull the front mags and run Page Gage tires on the rear and they are a blast. Plenty of selections

Buster

[Abarth Mike]

[DManley]

I have tried to lobby for picking a car type and all running it, like GT or DTM. Everybody pointed out that we already have the vintage NASCAR class. They feel that the rest of the classes should be a bit more open. It looks like they are going to go for three classes. Here are the tentative rules. (Rough draft) If anybody sees a problem with our rules, please let me know. I will be rewriting them to make them clearer as we go on.

Vintage NASCAR without magnets. (Evidently somebody reported that the new chargers run about even with the old ones when the magnets are removed, so this class is a go for now) This could be a handful on my short, twisty track. They tend to run just like giant T-Jets! We will start out running stock rubber tires on these, but if supply gets short, we will go to Paul Gage, or another replacement. Braids may be replaced with other brands, but guides must be stock Carrera or the alternate guide for shallow slots. The only mods allowed other than basic tuning are shimming the guide and gluing and truing the tires.

Stock Carrera. Any full bodied (No open wheel, Formula or indy style cars) Carrera car with stock chassis, body, motor, magnets, wheels, gearing and guide system. May be analog or digital car, but races will all be analog, on analog tracks. Digital board and switch may be removed. Wires must be stock, and use plugs. All of the supression equipment must stay on the motor. (Some of us have cars we bought on the 'bay from people who resell the digital chips, so we wanted these to be legal.) Wheels and axles must remain stock, but Paul Gage tires can be used. Tires can be glued and trued. Axles and guides may be shimmed. Bushings may be aligned and glued in. Guides must be Carrera, but the braids can be replaced with other brands. Front tires may be coated with nail polish, The chassis can be sanded for body float, but may not be lightened or otherwise modified. Cars with known wheel clearance issues may be lightly sanded or shaved for tire clearance. (1960 Fury had a rub even without the body rocking) Magnets must be stock, and in the stock location. Braids must be dry, and tires can not be wet or sticky. (Keeps the track in good shape)

Super Stock. Any plastic chassis car with a full plastic body. No open wheel cars. Chassis, body, motor and magnets must be stock and in stock location. Any bushings, axles, gears, wheels and rubber or urethane tires may be used. (No silicone tires, as we hate keeping our tracks surgically clean, and we like our rubber buildup as the season goes on!) Any guide may be used. Wires may be soldered, switches and boards may be bypassed and discarded. Tires may be glued and trued. Fronts may be coated with paint or polish. Tires may be profiled and ground. Body and chassis may be sanded for clearance to create "Float", but may not be lightened. Car must retain original interior. Different chassis screws may be used. Small detachable body parts (Mirrors, driving lights, wings, gas caps, antennae and other stuff like that) are not required. Bumpers, fascias, grilles, and glass are required, although small split bumpers can go missing with no penalties. Chassis may be reamed to accommodate aftermarket bushings. Bushings may be aligned and glued in. Bushings may be ground, polished or modified. Axles may be ground. Ball bearings are not allowed unless the car originally came with them. Chassis must be stock, except for reaming and clearance sanding. Screw holes may be slighty enlarged to prevent screws from binding. Motors may be glued in. Motors may be broken in, but not otherwise modified. Magnets may be shimmed, but must remain in their original pocket. Magnets must be in the pocket that they were originally installed in. Cars with slider magnets may have the magnet in any position within the pocket. The magnet may be glued in place with clear glue. (Old Carrera, Monogram, Revell and others have these sliders) Magnet pockets may not be sanded or thinned to get the magnets closer to the track!!! Chassis my not be melted or warped to get the magnets closer to the rails! (Yes we have couple people who have tried that!) No additional magnetic materials may be added to the car, including but not limited to, magnetic putties or paints, magnetic tapes, foils or shavings. No ballast weights are allowed.

All classes must be able to clear a credit card under the chassis. Any car scraping the track will be pulled immediately. (Track damage) The rules on melting chassis, and adding magnetic stuff need to be applied to all classes, and the rule on braids and tires being dry and not sticky need to be extended to all classes. (These are known as "Donny Rules" up here, after the person who made most of them necessary!)

I guess this rules out a DTM class, or a Scalextric Trans Am class for now. We'll see what the future holds. We didn't want to go beyond three classes at the start because the new guy already has enough to buy, and we want to pick up new racers. Three classes are also about the most we can run in one evening, so three it is. I am hoping that some out of production, unobtainable car doesn't end up dominating either the open Carrera class or the Super Stock class. If it does, we may have to consider a ban, but then you end up with a pretty unhappy racer.

The guys starting this are pretty cool and fun to race with. We don't have any real competitive jerks yet. We have had some people who fought every little thing and stretched every rule to the breaking point. They were also very unpleasant to race with unless they were winning. (Truthfully, they weren't even that pleasant when they were winning.) A couple of those people are the reason we haven't raced in a few years. For right now, our races will be private, by invitation only. My track is in a small sitting room at my Mother's house where I am taking care of her 24/7, so I can only accommodate five or six people, and they have to be tolerant of handicap equipment, occupied bathrooms, and interruptions. They also need to be respectful and somewhat discreet. Hopefully, this small group approach will let us get a good foundation, get a couple other tracks in play and let us work out some stable classes and rules before we open it up to the "Wild West" and let the unwashed masses join us. We really aren't a secret society or anything like that. We just want to get racing on a small scale without a lot of hassle. If I had a basement track at my own house, we would be doing things very differently, but we need to keep it to people I can trust in her house right now.

Thanks again for all of the advice and input. I am still going to nudge us towards distinct classes if I can, but for right now, the open Carrera and Super Stock classes will let everybody run something they already have. I will work on my 222 and 917K as soon as I finish wiring the track up. I will also get a Cobra, as this sounds like a bullet. I will grab a C7 too, in case I can talk them into a GT class, and a Cheetah, because I was going to buy one anyways.

[DrumPhil]

Another thing to think about if you are trying to attract new racers without them spending too much money: some current members with spare cars could loan a car in class to a new racer for the first season, so he doesn't have to buy a car for every class. Newbies need some time to simply learn how to drive slots anyway, so it's not the worst thing in the world if they can't do much tuning work on the car they are racing.