Primer and paint questions

[slothead]

My next slot car build is going to be a reproduction of the Mercury Cyclone below using a kit from Proxie Models.



I really like how vibrant the yellow is in this photo and would like to replicate it. I checked out local stores, including craft places like Michaels and A.C. Moore, looking for the brightest yellow spray paint I could buy. The 'official' name for the color I'm after may be safety yellow, which I'll probably go looking for at our local Sherwin-Williams paint store today. Best I could get on a Sunday was Krylon Sun Yellow at Walmart.



Late last night I put a test coat on a bare tan-white resin body and it was okay, but not vibrant like I was hoping for. While exploring shades of yellow on line I read about how the base coat can effect the tone of the yellow paint on top of it.

My question is, what base coat would you guys into modeling recommend under this yellow to help it shine? All feedback welcome.

[Fitzy]

If your using yellow enamel topcoat use a white lacquer primer for gound coat I have seen it in Advanced auto parts store I'm sure you can find it in other stores too.

[Wobble]

Yeah, I'd go for a white primer too, and even a couple of thin coats of 'vivid' white before the yellow.

[frank9129]

I found that clear coat brightened most colors.

[HomeRacingWorld]

[mattb]

The Krylon is pretty good for an enamel and it actually dries with no tackiness after a few days. I hate paint that stays soft and doesn't dry all the way thru. Testors makes a couple nice yellows in lacquer, which you can clear coat with lacquer or your clear of choice. I doubt if the undercoat color will make much difference if you put much yellow on it and get solid coverage. If it would make a difference, I would put some silver as a base coat. Check the options of yellow that Testors offers. They have a Chrysler yellow that may be what you want.

I like lacquer and try to not even keep enamel around. By not keeping enamel on the paint shelf, I never have trouble with mixing enamel and hotter paints.

If you want yellow that pops, there is Duplicolor Metalcast in yellow. Metalcast is transparent and you can use any base coat you want, white, silver, gold. It does require nice, even spraying for consistent color. that is the hardest part, but on a hard body you can keep spraying the base and the color till you get the result you want.

metalcast-2t_1_.jpg

[slothead]

Thanks for all the feedback. I'm hoping to have this be one of my best looking cars.

I went looking for Safety Yellow at our Sherwin-Williams paint store today but all they had was the same Krylon Sun Yellow paint I already got. I've decided to go with the Sun Yellow but will be thoughtful about the base coats using the feedback provided. For starters I'm going to find an unused body to prime with white on one side and grey on the other, then lay down a few thin coats of yellow and see if I prefer one side over the other.

I know yellow can be a difficult color to get the shade wanted. I think there are 28 'official' named shades of yellow that have been assigned contribution values for primary pigments (cyan, magenta, & yellow) or light (red, green, blue). All colors visible to the human eye can be made from mixtures of the primaries. But what is seen is also dependent on the light being used to illuminate it, since what we see is what gets reflected off the surface. I could end up with a car that looks dull in one setting, then pops and is vibrant in a different setting.

[waaytoomuchintothis]

Enamel paints for 1:1 usage are just not suitable for models. You can get away with lacquers, but enamels just won't do. The pigment is too large. For years, we all used enamel spray paints on models, and they always looked wrong. Gloppy.

Really bright colors need careful research. Its tough to get them right. Get all the research you can get to decide. There are loads of books full of photos to look through.

Look at the Panetone Index to find the right shade of yellow, then look on the net for who makes a spray or an air brushable paint. You might even be able to find the actual color name to verify on Panetone.

[slothead]

One of my problems is not knowing the difference between a lacquer and an enamel. As a kid I was able to get small bottles (35 cents?) of Testors paint and paint my models with a brush. As an adult when building a body for a slot car I'd just go to the nearest hardware store or department and grab the color I wanted, and didn't have any problems. Of course I mostly just wanted the car to be a certain color and wasn't overly concerned about how it would be judged as a model. My recent Cyclone builds have meant trying to replicate some nice classic cars with memorable paint schemes and decal configurations, so now I have higher expectations.

I just did a bit of research and Krylon ColorMaster spray paint is most likely, probably, a lacquer. Check out this query and response on Google:

Is Krylon ColorMaster enamel?

Krylon ColorMaster™ contains durable covermax® technology which provides a smooth, even coverage and brilliant color. ... Krylon ColorMaster™ is the perfect choice for both indoor and outdoor projects. Dry to touch in 10 minutes or less, to handle in 1 hour.

In another exchange on an RC forum Krylon replied to a question about using their own clear coat for their paints and said, no, that's likely going to cause wrinkling. Forum users said they weren't having problems with the new formulation of ColorMaster paints until they put a clear coat on top. The biggest complaint was Krylon not having a warning on their clear coat that it isn't compatible with their indoor/outdoor paint sold on the same shelves. The reason I buy Krylon spray paint is because it's everywhere in a lot of colors. I like being able to see the color of the cap to know if it's what I want. Krylon ColorMaster claims to be formulated to bond to plastic which I've found to be true.

I'm going to use the Krylon ColorMaster Sun Yellow paint I bought this weekend for some testing and hope to paint a Cyclone body with it once I settle on primer base coat(s). If it turns out as hoped it'll be the clear coating issue that'll really freak me out. I may skip it or try light coats of Future with a brush.

[Fitzy]

Krylon is an enamel paint and would not be safe to re-coat to soon every enamel goes through a drying period thats not safe to apply more paint usually a month I have done some really nice paint jobs with krylon after the yellow has been applied give it few days before adding decals so not to trap solvent under them it will make a decal wrinkle if done to soon floor wax would be a great option for clearcoat

[slothead]

This is from the Krylon ColorMaster website:

DRY TO TOUCH: 10 minutes
DRY TO HANDLE: 1 hour
RECOAT WINDOW: Within 4 hours or after 24 hours
APPLICATION CONDITIONS: 50 to 90 degrees; humidity below 85 degrees

I'll probably wait about an hour between base coat and topcoat(s), then apply 3 thin topcoats 10 - 15 minutes apart. I'll let it sit for 1 - 2 days before applying decals. Then another few days before thinking about trying Future as a clear coat.

[mattb]

Krylon Sunrise Red is a nice red that is great match for 1935 Lionel red. I used it to restore a 1935 Lionel Commodore Vanderbuilt passenger train. It worked great and dried in about 4-5 days. I didn't attempt a clear coat. It is an enamel paint, even if it is quick drying and trying to clear coat it may lead to failure. The safest bet is to use Pledge for the clear coat.

Spray lacquer is a hard paint and uses "hot" thinner to make it sprayable. Spray enamel is a soft paint that uses a "milder" thinner to make it sprayable. Enamel does not dry thoroughly and get hard like lacquer does. When lacquer goes over enamel, the "hotter" thinner penetrates into the enamel and makes it bubble up and split open. Best to stick the the same paint all the way thru any job. Pledge clear coat is safe with any type of paint.

I try to keep nothing but lacquer and I have no problems any more. Testors and Tamiya are expensive, but those big cans while cheaper, hardly ever get used up or go bad on the shelf. Lot's of guys use Duplicolor touch up spray, which is lacquer also.

The train only sets on a shelf.

[waaytoomuchintothis]

Matt, was that the "Red Comet"?

[slothead]

Thanks for all the feedback on types of paint and what does/doesn't work with what and why. Up till now I just looked at a can to see if it says it's okay to use with plastic.

The next time I'm in a hobby shop that sells spray paints I'll get several cans of Testors or Tamiya, though it's hard to predict in advance what colors I might want later on. No place around where I live carries that stuff, not even the craft stores I went to the other day. A decade or so ago there was at least a small section with hobby stuff in stores like Walmart and Kmart, but that went away. I remember buying a bunch of 1/32 SnapTite kits at Kmart and also being able to get paints, brushes, and other stuff.

I have to get going on my builds because in another month it won't be getting above 50 degrees here so I can paint outside on the deck. After that I'll be limited to the cellar (partial dirt floor & furnace nearby) or attic (unheated but I can open a window for ventilation).

[mattb]

Hobbylinc is a pretty good online hobby supplier. They carry most all Testors and Tamiya lacquers, which I find are the same. They have special prices a few dollars lower on some colors. Whether at HL or in a retail shop, you have to be sure you are looking at lacquer. Their enamel and polycarbonate spray comes in the same size can on the same rack. Mail ordering paint is not worthwhile for 1 can, but if you gt 4-6 cans and spread the postage among that much, it's not so bad.

The Commodore Vanderbilt was different than the Comet. Mine is a Lionel Jr, not the regular "O" gauge. More like the O27 size. It was cheaper compared to the "O" scale trains. This is the Commodore but not mine, I got a set of the later tin cars and used the red to make them the same as the engine.
Commodore.jpg

Blue Comet is an earlier (1920's) Lionel train in Standard gauge (2 inch), later issued in "O" gauge.
I do have a new re-issue of that train in Standard gauge that we run around the Christmas tree.
blue comet.jpg

I like trains, but only have 4-5 complete trains that are from when I was kid or that I really like. Not enough time and money to do all these hobbies!