Pioneer '68 Camaro Sunoco, any good?

[Cosmic Bilby]

Hey Guys,

Just wondering what the verdict was on this model, is it any good?

I ended up ordering one, love the Pioneer Mustangs, thought it would be nice to add a little variance in the T/A cars we use at home.....

[waaytoomuchintothis]

I'm still hopeful, but Jules had some things to say that were disappointing to those of us who kept their pre-orders for so very long, and have no glimpse of seeing a car yet. A year is long time to wait and be faithful, especially when the car is being sold in the UK, not here for over a month. I'm starting to feel like a fool.

[goosenapper]

While I can't speak to the Sunoco release, I do have a Stealth one that can best be described as a turd.

The front wheels don't spin. They bind against the body with the stock spacers in place and against the chassis with them removed. The rear wheels wobble, resulting from crooked drilling. The front and rear of the cars are made up of multiple pieces, presumably to allow for easy change of parts so that Pioneer can add details specific to each year to the cars. None of the panels on mine seem to fit well, with a noticeable gap being visible around everything. I can actually see through the body in to the chassis in the rear. To top it all off, the driver isn't attached inside the interior, and the flopping around during shipping resulted in paint damage to his nose. Oh, and his neck isn't even painted.

Maybe this was a Friday-evening special and the crew was in a hurry to knock off and hit the pubs, but I can't imagine too many folks being pleased when they receive a car in such condition as this. I certainly hope that yours is up to snuff. I too loved the Mustangs, and the Chargers as well. However, given several venom-filled Pioneer-related posts on this forum as well as what I have seen first-hand, the car that I've described above will be my final Pioneer purchase.

[ElSecundo]

Hey Rob, I have the Stealth car, too. Haven't run it yet, but I can bring it along when Jenny and I visit at Thanksgiving.

Jesse, maybe I got lucky, but my front wheels seem to spin just fine. In fact, I think I'll put it on the track this evening and see what's what...

[SuperSlab]

It seems I am one of those "belts and braces" people: I pre-ordered from both the US and UK. Some random thoughts:

1. Part of my mixed feelings come from the fact that I received my car from Inaslot in the UK almost three weeks ago.... and US dealers are still waiting to receive theirs! I am not normally a moaning-type person but I really think that Pioneer has not treated their US dealers (some who have apparently pre-paid to receive stock) fairly and respectfully. I understand that they had painful challenges. But it certainly does not appear as if they communicated as well as I would have hoped with the dealers.

2. My annoyance with this situation has made me seriously consider cancelling my US order, but that would have been totally counter-productive and end up only hurting the dealers (whom I respect) and not Pioneer (with whom I am annoyed).

3. Appearance: I am not totally enamoured with the paint of the Camaro. Maybe the Scaley Sunoco cars are the wrong colour, but the Pioneer blue looks more dull than I thought the real car was. This dull appearance is exacerbated by rather heavy orange peel all over: not something that I am used to on modern slot cars from pretty much any of the current manufacturers. The yellow lettering looks equally subdued. Also does not look like it has been clear coated, so tampo (that looks OK but nothing spectacular) might be vulnerable. Wheels look great.

4. Mechanically my car was fine. I did not have any of the front axle issues mentioned. However: the old Pioneer bugbear did rear it's ugly head: on the first night of racing the one rear wheel came off. This is nothing new and is probably known to just about all slot car enthusiasts. The reason is equally well known: they do not want to used knurled axles (with all the attendant drawbacks that causes). I ended up grinding small grooves in the rear axles, drilling small holes in the centre of the wheels and adding CA. I have since run the car for a while and so far so good.

Otherwise wheels, axles, gears and bushings are good.

5. Performance: the car runs extremely well. I trimmed the chassis for float, added some smooth shank body screws, removed the redundant components out of the motor wiring, and glued and trued urethanes on the rear wheels (and re-trued them after fixing the wheels!). The car sits a tad high to my eyes (definitely higher than the Scaley Camaro) but in spite of this it runs beautifully. Up to now my '70 Scaley Sunoco Camaro was my nicest fettled/tuned-but-generally-stock TransAm runner. The Pioneer is smoother and generally feels more "together" and ended up being more than a tenth of a second quicker (on an 8.4-ish second lap).

So: mixed feelings...

And a PS Kurt: on top of enjoying your reviews and posts generally, I just love your Mitch Hedberg quotes! Always gives me a lift!

[dreinecke]

After patiently waiting for this car to arrive, I ended up purchasing the Pioneer Sunoco car from Pendleslots in the UK. I got great service from them as always!

When it arrived on October 7th, I opened the box to find that the cardboard wrapper that has the car details ripped off on one side. No biggie for me, but not a good omen. The car was fastened to the base with a screw put on with what appears to have been an air wrench. I immediately put it down next to the car that started me off in 1:32 - the Scalextric 1969 version - yes I realize this is a bit apples to oranges in comparison, but it has to be made - afterall the plan is to race them together:


Initial Testing:
I did a cursory once-over and put it on the track. The nicest thing I can say is that it made it around the track...barely. The gears sounded so bad that it made a Revell Stocker seem quiet in comparison. It was noisy to the point that my wife called down from upstairs to ask what I was doing...something that NEVER happens. Did I mention the wheel hop? Peter Cottontail has nothing on this car. It also had no traction, but that is normal for my track with stock tires.

The Bodywork:
The paint is sub-par and they only shot it from the top and sides – it fades in color towards the rockers.


The underside and the bottom of the body is gray. Whoever painted it missed it completely.


The blue is also very dull on my car with almost no shine and several rough areas. BTW - another HRW member has one that is a much lighter shade of blue - and his clear coat has not properly cured - if he touches it he leaves fingerprints. The good news is the bottom of his was painted.

The Tampo:
The yellow is muted – it looks thin and is no doubt due to the blue it went over. The tampo is ok – not great. It seems to have a rough finish over the tampo or the tampo itself is rough. The tampo is also off from one side to the other. It is so bad that on one side the 302 letters are above the belt line and below it on the other side. The stripes do the same thing from side to side in relation to the door handles. Additionally, the tampo has numerous smudges as you can see in the above picture in the #15 roundel.


Under the Hood:
Back to the running...the car is rough. Ok, I can tune it...once I get the screws off that were put on by the tire crew on Jr’s car...and here's what I found:

1) The body and chassis are slightly twisted. Look at the wiring pics...they were under the interior and pinched where the screws went through the round hole in the chassis into the interior (not used here) on the Mustang...pinched it good too. So, it never sat on the chassis correctly.




2) The wheels – both rear wheels were as wobbly as a drunk in a Walmart. In looking at them, it was very obvious that they were not properly centered when drilled or molded - however they were made.
3) There was NO lube anywhere on the car. And those nice brass bushings with the oiling hole? Once was turned so you couldn’t use it. Had to pull the axle and rotate it. Not a big deal, but just added to the feeling that it wasn't well put together.
4) The front axle had issues too. There were 3 spacers on each side and it still had excessive side to side slop that caused the tires on both sides to contact the fenders on corners.
5) The back axle had an epic amount of slop on top of whatever else was going on with the mesh.

So, what to do? Box it and put in on eBay, or run the crap out of it. Hmm...I choose door number two - after all, I'm almost $77 into this thing with the exchange rate...

The Fixes:
1) I replaced the entire rear assembly with Slot Car Corner 15x8 insert wheels (I've turned down the original wheels for inserts) and a new Slot.it gear. The only saving grace to the loose wheel issue is that the SCC and Slot.it parts worked perfectly so I didn't have to do the axle and bushings.
2) I re-routed the wiring so that it doesn't pinch the chassis or interior. I also sanded off the old screw mounts on the bottom of the interior to help with that.
3) I noticed that one of the braids wasn't seated right - whoever inserted the blade with the wire soldered onto it must've fought with it...it looked like it had been bent multiple times and broke as soon as I touched it. I had to solder the wire on the "stub" that was remaining.
4) Not a Pioneer issue, but I replaced the rear tires with PG XPG tires and sanded the chassis all around and opened the mounting holes up to get some float.
5) I carefully removed one wheel off the front axle, trimmed it, and set the width correctly since the wheel was unable to slip on any further.

So, how is it now? It runs like a $76.58 car with $20 in parts in it- in other words; really good, now that I've done all of that. Mine needed more than a simple tune - wheels and gears should not have to be replaced on a brand new car. This isn't Fly 10 years ago with the cracked pinion issue. This is 2013.

So there you have it. Your mileage may vary.

BTW - Pendles seems to have these in stock again if you still can't get it in the USA.

[ElSecundo]

Hah, glad you recognize the Mitch-isms. :) He was subtly phenomenal.

A couple quick additions about the car. The stealth paint job is excellent, very cool. It ran pretty nicely, even on my dusty track, with a little rear end hop. I took it apart, and noticed that the bushings didn't fit well in the chassis. Those were glued in, and the car was oiled and greased. I ran the chassis after some light tire truing and before putting the body on, and it ran even better. It's unfortunate that I can't figure out how to get the body back on, though -- very fiddly and hard to get right. I've been trying to put the body on for the last 15 minutes, and I'm no closer now than I was 15 minutes ago. The only time it seemed like I was close, the chassis holes didn't line up with the body posts. If I tucked the nose of the chassis where it looked like it should go, the front chassis holes lined up well -- but then the rear half of the chassis wouldn't fit into the bodywork, and it probably has to do with the odd wiring. I do think I'll like it once I get that sorted out.

[Ember]

It is disappointing to hear these things. Very sad that delivery in US and Australia is so far behind the UK. But that doesn't seem to be a Pioneer only issue. It sucks but it seems to be life.

I can't commenton performance as mine haven't been around the track at all. The Stealth paint has a mark on one door but I assume this was done when the car was wrapped in plastic wrap to make sure it was secure and did not move in transit. I have not tried to wipe the mark off.

I must also admit that I have not had to deal with the pre-order wait. I simply can't afford to. If I get a shot at the cars when I have money then great. Otherwise I learn to live without the pretty toys.

The Sunoco, when it arrives, is destined for the track. We'll see what happens then.

[waaytoomuchintothis]

Okay, I'm done. I just cancelled my pre-order for the Camaros and the Legends cars. It was a lot of money anyway. I can spend it better elsewhere. Besides, what if they all came at once and I had to scramble to pay for them? If the quality is crap its even worse. It won't make any difference to Jules' new way of doing business that I dumped him, nor inspire better quality, but I am finished being one of the hungry dogs in the yard fighting to get a chance at a piece of meat. No more pre-orders for anything for me.

[waaytoomuchintothis]

The post I wrote has vanished. Essentially I was just saying that the manufacturers who treat customers badly will fail. We'll see if this one disappears...

[Ember]

Seems the wheel issue is back. Friend in the UK has the Pacific orange Camaro. Loves it to pieces. He hasn't had any complaints with the car before tinkering other than that a rear wheel dropped off as in the original Mustang. But, Jules had mentioned he would be adding glue to assembly. I thought that decision had been made with the Mustang production.

The report of the Camaro is that it is good and stable on the track. Mind you, he drops an NSR 25k motor in anything! But urethane tyres, matched motor and the Camaro is the fastest of the 3 Pioneer models. More stable than the Mustang and more collected than the Charger. But the Charger has the advantage of being a warrior in the corners. :lol:

[waaytoomuchintothis]

No, Harry, thanks, but it was just a little earlier this afternoon, after that post. What bugs me is that it has happened three times in 3 months or so, and nobody else's are doing it that I know of. There has to be something going on on this end, but I can't figure it out.

[ElSecundo]

Rob, it happens to me all the time. May be a different issue, but it times me out if I think about the post too long. I hit 'submit', and I think everything is good, and when I come back to the window later, I find that I'm logged out and the post is gone. It happens every time I get long-winded, so the website is telling me something. :lol:

Back to the car. The build quality appears to be less than what we'd come to expect from Pioneer, and you know how people are -- they hate to have something, then have it taken away. It's always ok to improve, but take a step backward, and you'll find that someone's already dug a hole right behind you. My take on it is that I'll need to be patient with the car -- not LMM patient, not TeamSlot patient, but more than I'd normally expect. The car does have potential. And where I don't normally do a lot of American iron, this car does have a certain coolness to it. The Stealth car reminds of the flat black Ferrari 575 GT that Carrera did years ago, but with an American twist.

[Ember]

Am I wrong to suggest that the new Pioneer production team are still undergoing skills growth. Remember, they are new to toy car production. The Chinese have had decades of practice.

Yes... I know it is not the quality expected. But.... When one is caught between a rock and a hard place what to be done?

[dge467]

It's too bad to hear about some of the issues people are having. I still will get one though. ;)