Which do you prefer?

[Ember]

I enjoy tinkering with cars. But, I do expect something to work when first put on the track. Seems there have been a few cars in my collection that have not even managed that. It was one of the things that put me off buying Scalex. The second car I purchased wouldn't even spin up it's rear wheels when removed from the box.

I think my expectations vary some with the price paid. An NSR should be good with nothing more than a tyre change. I'm quite happy to do some serious work on an SCX car. But as much as possible I like to work with the original parts. Not a swap out fan unless something stops working. Then I might consider and upgrade.

[Florida_Slotter]

A super question ElSecundo.

It is my belief that regardless of the condition of the car when you remove it from the box, you can always make it better.

That being said, I do enjoy a car that runs well right out of the box. It's nice to be able to measure the performance prior to making tuning changes.

I feel that with enough parts, time and money, just about any car can be made to run properly. But if you buy a car for $45, then add another $35 to get it to run to your liking while you could have purchased a like car for $55 and have it run properly out of the box, which route do you think most folks would prefer
.

[Moby Dick]

Great question Kurt.
I pretty much feel the same as Superslab on this topic.
I rarely, if ever run a car as it is from the box. I usually tear the car down and start witha ground up assembly blueprinting the car as I go. Any car with plastic wheels get aluminum hubs and silicone tires (SCC CB design and supertires). Building and tuning are my favorite facets of the hobby and egg shaped plastic wheels make me squirm. Out of the box performance means nothing to me. Even the best performing ootb cars can be improved by a wide margin.

[slothead]

When I pay $55 for a sleek Trans Am car I do expect it to run well out of the box, and not need a lot of work to have fun with. As my stable grows how do you keep up with 25 - 30 cars without spending a second fortune on parts?

AND, what about all of the same cars that will end up under a Christmas tree? There should be enough quality control so that new stuff works as advertised. Sadly, a lot of kids these days don't have a dad around to help them learn how things work and teach tuning tips. I know moms who won't buy this kind of stuff for their kids because they believe something always goes wrong and an expensive gift ends up in the attic, or worse yet, in the trash. A car we might consider a challenging project could just as well end up the hands of someone who will never learn how to tune a car because the lemon they got turned them off to slot cars for good.

Slothead

[dreinecke]

I believe that no matter the price a slot car should run right out of the box. And there in is the rub: what does "run" mean? To me = it can drive around a plastic track with metal rails under it's own power. It doesn't need to be perfect, but it should make it around the track. To the point about kids - they will be disappointed if it doesn't.

As an adult that races regularly, we will always "tweak" a car. It isn't a manufacturer's fault that I have a routed wood track - if I have to buy urethane tires, that's on me. Wobbly wheels - I can fix it...doesn't mean I want to or should have to, but at least get around the track.

I have had all varieties of cars. Some good, some bad, some meh. The bad ones tick me off like nothing else. I can forgive some minor problems, but not the major ones. I think the manufacturers need to be held accountable for the product they sell. Sadly, it will never happen in my opinion. Why? #1 - Collectors that never take them out of the box to discover they are horrible at running. #2 - Racers will fix the issue as it is usually to problematic to take it back to the store when it exists only on the internet or in another location far away.

Oh, and if manufacturers want to sell us cars no matter the price, they should be able to stand the heat when someone calls them out for a bad product. $39.95 to one person of limited means is no different than a $90.99 car to another.

[waaytoomuchintothis]

There you go, David. Well said.

[ElSecundo]

These are two very different topics, it seems:

1) which do you prefer, and

2) what should you get for your money

#1 shouldn't get you pissed off just thinking about it. :lol:
#2 is what this is morphing into. I've asked that question before. It's a fun topic, but there are some very strong feelings about that one. :)

I want to tinker with a LMM car, even at $120 a pop. I don't want to tinker with a Scalextric, Carrera, or SCX car. Why? These three state specifically that they are building toys, and toys need to run decently on plastic tracks out of the box, so that mom and dad (and Junior) get the value they expect for their dollar. These folks know nothing about the hobby, and they are at the toy company's mercy. Toymakers should never expect their buyers to fix their stuff out of the box to make it work. Everything else is a 'hobby car', to be bought by hobbyists who should know what they are getting themselves into before they plunk down the cash. If they want runners, buy NSR. If they want runners, buy Slot.It. If they want a project car, buy LMM. Should any hobbyist expect the same things from LMM as they do from NSR? Absolutely not -- the hobbyist is responsible for managing his/her own expectations.

[waaytoomuchintothis]

Value per dollar doesn't change with the context. If it costs $100 and doesn't run, its a bad buy, regardless of any other factor. If it costs $50, it gets twice as much allowance for my tolerance. If a hobbyist manufacturer wants me to tolerate bad workmanship, they need to lower their price to match the toy folks.

[ElSecundo]

[SuperSlab]

[waaytoomuchintothis]

One's willingness to let go of a dollar may change with preference, how many dollars are available, etc. but quality doesn't change. Desire isn't the same as quality, or we'd all be married to hookers. Or something like that... its late.

[SuperSlab]

[ElSecundo]

Hah, married to hookers... :)

True, quality doesn't change, but quality and value are different. Let's face it, if quality was the driver of all purchases, nobody would have ever bought an Alfa Romeo. But there is a segment of the population that is willing to part with a lot of dollars for the privilege of dealing with the headaches from Alfa Romeo, from Jaguar, from Le Mans Miniatures, etc. If you look at these things cross-eyed, they'll break, rust, or go out of tune. But enough people perceive value there, that their prices are justified. Would a college student with no money perceive value in an Alfa Romeo? Yes, the first time he gets lucky because of the car, no, the first time he has to pay 3 month's wages at his crap job for a simple repair. A wealthy college student finds that the good far outweighs the bad in his Alfa, even though the quality is identically bad. He's getting lucky a lot, and all he has to do is throw a few bucks at the import shop every six weeks. High value for this guy.

[nhdungeonracer]

[waaytoomuchintothis]

For a proper understanding of these terms we are using, see "Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance" by Robert Pirsig. But pack a lunch for that one- it is in the extreme of high-mindedness, and will take a long time to read, like worthwhile books should.